Curse

=HT=Ingram · Nov 09, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Why should they? It hurts nothing, Its a limited skill, It does not give an unfair advantage by using it. Indeed it kinda limits what you as a player can do. If can't be exploited by Heroes and henchies.

I just can not see the reason for Anet to care one way or another... Its a PvE skill and as such unimportant to overall game balance issues. That was the point of having PvE skills so it would not screw up the PvP balances anymore every time they decided to try something new...

Last thing you want is another Protective Bond nerf. I mean common, NO ONE would ever use that skill again. They might as well have just deleted it from the game.

Indeed I would have preferred it make a return in the fashion of Holy Wraith (zero energy builds) and become a PvE only skill so it would not be abused in PvP. But as it stands right now, its a waste of a skill in the attribute now. It would have just been better to delete it entirely.

If they swing a unneeded nerf at Ursan Blessing in the same fashion, Thats yet another loss of a skill. Now As far as I am personally concerned Those elite skills do not function as they should ANYHOW, in that they do not morph you into the animal form, so they should not be in the game until completed.

If you want them for Mission only special skills, Great. Whatever... But remove them as Elite skills unless Anet wants to finish them, instead of giving us an half assed incomplete effect with a skill that only a fraction of people really give a fig about. Other Traditional builds are much better to make use of anyway. But if someone gets off on having a limited skill bar for missions, well more power to them. It hurts nothing and no one. So there is no point in fussing over it except for a bunch of elitist idiots that like to have an inflation market so they can sell easily attainable things for 100K or more.

unienaule · Nov 09, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Once again, I don't do any of these elite areas on anything close to a regular basis. This argument that I'm complaining that I can't sell easily attainable things for 100k or more holds no water.

Here's my counter to your "we change our skills when running UB." For your example of your fast cast nuker, I hope you don't use that when facing things that are resistant to fire.

Find something that is resistant to unblockable, armor-ignoring damage that ignores weakness and blind. Have it be a melee attack that follows actual rules, and maybe then it won't be so stupid.

Shaz · Nov 09, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

You seriously think Prot Bond nerfed was an unnecessary? If you do then I have nothing to say to you. Just because it doesn't affect PvP doesn't mean that they won't/shouldn't balance it (look at TNTF and SoL for example). If you want to play a game with bad balanced and broken skills then go ahead, enjoy while it last. Don't know how many time I need to say this to get it into some of you. But I'll say it one more time, it's about making the game better and not some lame game with overpowered skills, not about nerfing skill so other can't enjoy it. If you don't get that then I don't know what else to say.

tmakinen · Nov 09, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Find something that is resistant to unblockable, armor-ignoring damage that ignores weakness and blind.

Diversion? Distracting Shot? You won't want to bring your bear anywhere close to mobs with those skills.

On the same vein and one-upping your challenge, find something that is resistant to high DPS unblockable, un-prottable, armor-ignoring un-damage that ignores every condition and practically every hex except Diversion, i.e., the touch ranger

yesitsrob · Nov 09, 2007, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Touch rangers DPS don't even compare to Ursan, they also don't get the HP bonus, they also have no AoE...

Free Wind · Nov 09, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

On the same vein and one-upping your challenge, find something that is resistant to high DPS unblockable, un-prottable, armor-ignoring un-damage that ignores every condition and practically every hex except Diversion, i.e., the touch ranger

Take as many touch rangers as you feel fit and show us you clear Foundry, Gloom or Veil with it. Kill Mallyx with touch ranger team.
Only then we can go on comparing them

unienaule · Nov 09, 2007, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Diversion? Distracting Shot? You won't want to bring your bear anywhere close to mobs with those skills.

On the same vein and one-upping your challenge, find something that is resistant to high DPS unblockable, un-prottable, armor-ignoring un-damage that ignores every condition and practically every hex except Diversion, i.e., the touch ranger

Touch rangers are bad. I would have thought someone from SoF wouldn't embarass themselves by comparing Ursan and touch rangers. High DPS? Wth? Compared to what, c-spacing daggers with no attack skills? You definitely weren't comparing it to Ursan. I honestly hope you were joking.

Also, d-shot and diversion have no more effect on ursan than they do against any other build. Spell counters and melee counters have no effect on ursan skills. I guess if you wanted to nitpick you could say that shout-prevention skills make a TINY impact on ursan. Blind, nothing. Daze, nothing. Weakness, nothing.

tmakinen · Nov 09, 2007, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Free Wind: The main reason for why UB is so broken in DoA is that it gets multiplicative benefits from two different title tracks, LB and Norn. While either is 'balanced' on its own, when you put them together you get something awful. I already suggested a possible fix for this on Sardelac but it was swamped by people who fail at reading comprehension. Since a touch ranger doesn't get even the LB benefit, your point is totally moot.

Unienaule: UB is bad, too. I would have thought someone from Rare (and an admin to boot!) wouldn't embarass themselves by failing basic cognitive association. You claimed that the bear is bad because Ursan Strike bypasses a large part of game mechanics. I pointed out that there is a PvP valid build that does the same and even more. That toucher is a bad build is exactly my point. The problem with the bear lies elsewhere.

Edit: about the DPS thingy. At max (10) Norn, you get 37.5 DPS out of Strike, another 12 DPS (not armor ignoring) from Rage and yet another 15 DPS from swinging your sword to keep energy up (but then you're not immune to melee hate any more) for a total of 64.7 in ideal conditions (no conditions or hexes). A toucher cranks out steady 60 DPS regardless of conditions and hexes, so it's totally comparable to bear in that respect. Only when we go to DoA and the bear gets the 40% LB bonus there's a huge difference in performance.

Auron of Neon · Nov 09, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Unienaule: UB is bad, too.

lol.

in fact... lol.

this thread's got more fail than I thought possible.

bungusmaximus · Nov 09, 2007, 10:20 AM // 10:20

I can understand tmakkinen quite well, what he/she means is that touchers cant be blocked or blinded either and they do damage in melee range. wtb imagination. Still, touchers would get creamed in doa, and bears don't but that's not his point.

Free Wind · Nov 09, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Free Wind: The main reason for why UB is so broken in DoA is that it gets multiplicative benefits from two different title tracks, LB and Norn.

What about UB UW teams? UB HM Dungeons teams? 1-2 UB people turning tyria titan quests into a joke? 2 UB + 6 heroes breezing though Duncan HM?

But, hey, I give up, tmakinen, you're right. Ursan Blessing is not overpowered. It's perfectly balanced. Those stupid mobs in PvE just need to think of a good counter before they spawn, brainless idiots!

Perfectly clear picture:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=241

(we did the same in Urgoz, just agroed and slaughetered everything with no strategy)

tmakinen · Nov 09, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Wind

What about UB UW teams? UB HM Dungeons teams? 1-2 UB people turning tyria titan quests into a joke? 2 UB + 6 heroes breezing though Duncan HM?

Have you ever noticed that the average GW player fails hard at build making? Now that there's one skill to take which provides a decent and very easy to use build, what else do you expect to happen? The fact is, any of those can be done better with non-UB team builds. Heck, even DoA has been done faster with a non-UB build.

And Auron, do you really derive so much satisfaction from failing to understand what other people are saying

mcsumo · Nov 09, 2007, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Unienaule, I am sure a few posts ago you said that, just spamming 2 overpowered skills is what makes bears so ridiculously powerful. Now you are saying that D-shot and diversion have no more effect....yadda yadda yadda.

Well make up your mind what your argument is you can't have it both ways. If a bear gets d-shotted and diverted, you are left with a useless lump standing growling at things

.

Plus people keep talking about, 6 bears and 2 monks. I haven't seen many teams trying that. And the ones I did failed. Better to have more 'balance' with a Mot para, 1 LoD, 1 resto rit, 1 spirit spam.

Not sure how new updates will affect things yet, but am miffed about one of my other options being nerfed. Splinter barrage wouldn't be much use it seems.

Also I am still poring over Mallyx threads, trying to find talk of a true balanced build that our beloved warrior/ranger dynamic duo can work in. Can't find it. But I did find this gem of a comment from yesitsrob.

In fairness, we don't always use it - the first time ever touched Save Yourselves was Citadel itself. We use it a lot now because we discovered just how ridiculous it is, and aggro'ing 4 groups at once is funny sometimes, seriously it just allows for epic RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing around. Caution has pretty much been damned in Guild Wars when that is around, but even without it there's other defensive skills that allow you to breeze through it... So while SY and TNTF are nice, the game is barely lacking in pve only skill options which make the game retardedly easy.

You see, one of the people who is anti bear openly admits using 'ridiculous' PvE skills, to make things 'retardedly easy'. They have been doing this repeatedly, thus reaping the benefits from a 'ridiculous' overpowered skill. What is the difference between this and UB? Only that the masses have caught on to this one and the playground has got a bit crowded for some's taste.

And aggroing 4 groups??? WTF? If a bear team did that we would be dead in seconds, no question about it. In fact aggroing 2 groups can lead to a 'tactical withdrawal', better known as shitting ourselves and running.

Free Wind · Nov 09, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Now that there's one skill to take which provides a decent and very easy to use build, what else do you expect to happen? The fact is, any of those can be done better with non-UB team builds. Heck, even DoA has been done faster with a non-UB build.

That's what people and OP are trying to say, aren't they? Doesn't it mean UB is a broken skill that should be changed?

tmakinen · Nov 09, 2007, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Wind

That's what people and OP are trying to say, aren't they? Doesn't it mean UB is a broken skill that should be changed?

Guess what? I agree with you

(assuming that 'changed' in this context means 'fixed' and not 'removed' like some people are suggesting). Still, bad arguments aren't less bad when they are used in support of a good cause, and that's all I was pointing out (devil's advocate, me? Me?

)

Auron of Neon · Nov 09, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

And Auron, do you really derive so much satisfaction from failing to understand what other people are saying

Actually, understanding what they're saying and understanding further that they're just dead wrong is what gives me the most satisfaction.

tmakinen · Nov 09, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auron of Neon

Actually, understanding what they're saying and understanding further that they're just dead wrong is what gives me the most satisfaction.

So, out of all the SMS people on these forums you're the only one who thinks that UB is a good skill because it dumbs down the game? Wowsers, does Racthoh know of this yet?

bungusmaximus · Nov 09, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Bleh the e-peen stroking is becoming unBEARable :P

tmakinen · Nov 09, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Ok, I'm sorry, I was having too much fun at the expense of other people (old habits die hard)

I'll be quiet now ...

RTSFirebat · Nov 09, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Lets not get personal in this debate (aka flame fest) please. ^_^

tmak /hug